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陶天才专题
[俱乐部:Dcbang_On_Education][首篇作者:dcbang] , 2017年01月10日10:48:24
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dcbang
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发信人: dcbang (认真学习,努力思考,使劲白唬), 信区: Dcbang_On_Education
标  题: 陶天才专题
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Jan 10 10:48:24 2017, 美东)

我说我对天才这个叫法的最大意见是"比"。。然后就有人说1)天赋不同客观存在,
2)谁稀罕和你比,

呵呵,都很TRUE。天才客观存在,天才也的确不应该和别人比。任何人其实都是这样-
-不应该和别人比,只应该和自己比。好比我娃的游泳成绩,只要和自己比有进步就行
了。。

也许我有意见的是智商领域里"天才"这个标签,毕竟别的领域好比音乐,体育,艺术
等等,都没有"天才"这个叫法,尽管他们实质一样,1)天赋不同客观存在,2)每
个人只和自己比,基于自身努力。(音乐神童有,但音乐神童跟刻苦的关联似乎比天生
要大。)

当然了,我非说天才和普通才,智商和体育商的的教育没不同--天才的家长笑了,说
就是不同的,你娃不是天才你不懂,你就不要冷脸贴热屁股了。。HEHE,FINE!我的确
该建设自己的安全感,不该被别人的优越感刺到。(话说上次小被刺到,也是天生论,
被人瞄一眼,说你不要闹了,身体条件不行,肌肉类型不对--显然那人家也不无道理
。)

ANYWAY,这一堆引言,都是为了下面这个连接铺垫:

陶天才论天才。

https://terrytao.wordpress.com/career-advice/advice-on-gifted-education/

--
※ 修改:·dcbang 於 Jan 13 11:03:16 2017 修改本文·[FROM: 192.]
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dcbang
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发信人: dcbang (认真学习,努力思考,使劲白唬), 信区: Dcbang_On_Education
标  题: Re: 陶天才论天才
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Jan 10 11:08:01 2017, 美东)

陶天才文中说了啥?

1。最大的天赋是激情。If you can give your son or daughter only one gift,
let it be enthusiasm. 呵呵,注意到上文里用到GIFT这个词了吗?

2。教育要长远。Firstly, one should not focus overly much on a specific
artificial benchmark, such as obtaining degree X from prestigious
institution Y in only Z years, or on scoring A on test B at age C.

3。教育要全面。Such a goal (SHOULD NOT) take away from other aspects of a
child’s social, emotional, academic, physical, or intellectual development.

4。要推推开心。it is important to enjoy one’s work; this is what sustains
and drives a person throughout the duration of his or her career, and holds
burnout at bay.

5。重努力,不要重天赋。Thirdly, one should praise one’s children for their
efforts and achievements (which they can control), and not for their innate
talents (which they cannot).

6。领域要灵活。A child may be initially gifted in field X, but decides that
field Y is more enjoyable or is a better fit.

7。LAST BUT NOT LEAST - 因才施教,不必拘泥。 whether it be a special
school, private tutoring, home schooling, grade acceleration, or anything
else; these are all options with advantages and disadvantages,

哈哈,普通娃家长对陶天才的天才教育心得说,知道你说的和我无关,但我学到了!而
且在神身上看见了人性,让俺觉得被拉近了和神的距离。:)



【 在 dcbang (认真学习,努力思考,使劲白唬) 的大作中提到: 】
: 我说我对天才这个叫法的最大意见是"比"。。然后就有人说1)天赋不同客观存在,
: 2)谁稀罕和你比,
: 呵呵,都很TRUE。天才客观存在,天才也的确不应该和别人比。任何人其实都是这样-
: -不应该和别人比,只应该和自己比。好比我娃的游泳成绩,只要和自己比有进步就行
: 了。。
: 也许我有意见的是智商领域里"天才"这个标签,毕竟别的领域好比音乐,体育,艺术
: 等等,都没有"天才"这个叫法,尽管他们实质一样,1)天赋不同客观存在,2)每
: 个人只和自己比,基于自身努力。(音乐神童有,但音乐神童跟刻苦的关联似乎比天生
: 要大。)
: 当然了,我非说天才和普通才,智商和体育商的的教育没不同--天才的家长笑了,说
: ...................





--
※ 修改:·dcbang 於 Jan 10 11:13:46 2017 修改本文·[FROM: 192.]
※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 网址:mitbbs.com 移动:在应用商店搜索未名空间·[FROM: 192.]

 
dcbang
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发信人: dcbang (认真学习,努力思考,使劲白唬), 信区: Dcbang_On_Education
标  题: Re: 陶天才论天才
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Jan 10 11:44:04 2017, 美东)

陶天才文外说了啥?

*陶天才很外向。善于交流。善于和别人合作。
*陶天才不相信灵感,强调大量阅读文献,把工作建立在别人的基础之上。
*陶天才是人,还是神?尽管他很厉害,但别人说起他最深刻的成就还是素数定理?那
他还不如张一唐不是?
*陶天才很厉害,但他厉害在数学这一项,应该和他妈是数学老师,比较会教,一步一
个脚印有关?
*陶天才对自己的行当很谦虚。感谢他家长没推他去做金融,律师,医生等更
PRESTIGOUS的行当。也说他喜欢LA,因为和影星比,他不是名人。而且他的娃居然想当
演员。
*陶天才有个自闭的弟弟。陶天才的家长能让陶同学天才而不孤僻,能让陶弟弟自闭而
能生活自理----人家重视的绝不仅仅是智力!
*陶爸爸说天才界过于注重智商和超前。素质要全面。。
*陶天才从小喜欢和兄弟做游戏。也许这个帮助他的SOCIAL能力?
*陶天才对大选发表观点。关心时事,不是只读圣贤书的呆子。


【 在 dcbang (认真学习,努力思考,使劲白唬) 的大作中提到: 】
: 陶天才文中说了啥?
: 1。最大的天赋是激情。If you can give your son or daughter only one gift,
: let it be enthusiasm. 呵呵,注意到上文里用到GIFT这个词了吗?
: 2。教育要长远。Firstly, one should not focus overly much on a specific
: artificial benchmark, such as obtaining degree X from prestigious
: institution Y in only Z years, or on scoring A on test B at age C.
: 3。教育要全面。Such a goal (SHOULD NOT) take away from other aspects of
a
:  child’s social, emotional, academic, physical, or intellectual
development.
: 4。要推推开心。it is important to enjoy one’s work; this is what
sustains
: and drives a person throughout the duration of his or her career, and
holds
: ...................




--
※ 修改:·dcbang 於 Jan 10 11:53:33 2017 修改本文·[FROM: 192.]
※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 网址:mitbbs.com 移动:在应用商店搜索未名空间·[FROM: 192.]

 
dcbang
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发信人: dcbang (认真学习,努力思考,使劲白唬), 信区: Dcbang_On_Education
标  题: Re: 陶天才论天才
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Jan 10 11:58:29 2017, 美东)


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/26/magazine/the-singular-mind-of-terry-tao.html


一提不仲永的天才,我就自然去狗陶轩哲了。。狗到这篇。去年的文章

1。作者说是得过普列茨奖。但这个文章开头不错,结尾一般,写的有点没主题。文章
说陶轩哲"SUPER NORMAL",但除了他吃饭,没说他怎么NORMAL了。说了一堆他在工作
的数学难题,又说这些题如同和古人交流--反而不容易让人觉得他NORMAL。I GUESS
很难证明一个人NORMAL。:)

2。陶同学7岁读完高中数学。10岁得了奥赛奖牌。同学们,7岁读完高中数学和7
岁读完小学数学,这难度系数差不少哈。不管几岁,得AMC满分和进奥赛,这难度系数
也差不少哈。

3。陶同学17岁去普林读博,居然也沉沦过,天天打游戏逃避。

4。陶同学认为早年神童期还不是真数学,不过呢,大多数人不需要学习真数学。

The ancient art of mathematics, Tao has discovered, does not reward speed so
much as patience, cunning and, perhaps most surprising of all, the sort of
gift for collaboration and improvisation that characterizes the best jazz
musicians. Tao now believes that his younger self, the prodigy who wowed
the
math world, wasn’t truly doing math at all. ‘‘It’s as if your only
experience with music were practicing scales or learning music theory,’’

5。陶同学居然也要当司机送娃学钢琴。他的儿子居然想当演员。演了几个广告了。住
LA的结果。

回到主题,陶同学没仲泳。莫扎特也没。感觉不管是什么程度的材料,要客观,要实事
求是,又要培养又不能拔---这个度怎么掌握是真本事。



【 在 dcbang (认真学习,努力思考,使劲白唬) 的大作中提到: 】
: 陶天才文外说了啥?
: *陶天才很外向。善于交流。善于和别人合作。
:  *陶天才不相信灵感,强调大量阅读文献,把工作建立在别人的基础之上。
:  *陶天才是人,还是神?尽管他很厉害,但别人说起他最深刻的成就还是素数定理
?那
:  他还不如张一唐不是?
:  *陶天才很厉害,但他厉害在数学这一项,应该和他妈是数学老师,比较会教,一
步一
:  个脚印有关?
:  *陶天才对自己的行当很谦虚。感谢他家长没推他去做金融,律师,医生等更
: PRESTIGOUS的行当。也说他喜欢LA,因为和影星比,他不是名人。而且他的娃居然想当
:  演员。
: ...................



--
※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 网址:mitbbs.com 移动:在应用商店搜索未名空间·[FROM: 192.]

 
dcbang
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发信人: dcbang (认真学习,努力思考,使劲白唬), 信区: Dcbang_On_Education
标  题: Re: 陶天才论天才
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Jan 10 12:39:25 2017, 美东)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanvardi/2015/09/29/rich-formula-math-and-computer-wizards-now-billionaires-thanks-to-quant-trading-secrets/#31522bfb7f30

WOW,不知道陶天才看到这里怎么想?所以陶天才还要加上一条,恬淡!


【 在 dcbang (认真学习,努力思考,使劲白唬) 的大作中提到: 】
: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/26/magazine/the-singular-mind-of-terry-tao.html
: 一提不仲永的天才,我就自然去狗陶轩哲了。。狗到这篇。去年的文章
:  1。作者说是得过普列茨奖。但这个文章开头不错,结尾一般,写的有点没主题。
文章
:  说陶轩哲"SUPER NORMAL",但除了他吃饭,没说他怎么NORMAL了。说了一堆他在
工作
:  的数学难题,又说这些题如同和古人交流--反而不容易让人觉得他NORMAL。I
GUESS
: 很难证明一个人NORMAL。:)
:  2。陶同学7岁读完高中数学。10岁得了奥赛奖牌。同学们,7岁读完高中数学
和7
:  岁读完小学数学,这难度系数差不少哈。不管几岁,得AMC满分和进奥赛,这难度系数
:  也差不少哈。
:  3。陶同学17岁去普林读博,居然也沉沦过,天天打游戏逃避。
: ...................



--
※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 网址:mitbbs.com 移动:在应用商店搜索未名空间·[FROM: 192.]

 
dcbang
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发信人: dcbang (认真学习,努力思考,使劲白唬), 信区: Dcbang_On_Education
标  题: Re: 陶天才论天才
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Jan 10 12:43:29 2017, 美东)

https://quomodocumque.wordpress.com/2011/01/11/do-mathematicians-have-tiger-
mothers-or-thats-funny-norbert-you-dont-look-chinese/

10. Terence Tao says:   

January 12, 2011 at 6:01 am   

I have Chinese parents but my upbringing had essentially none of the
elements described in the article, being much more Australian in nature. It
seems to me that this sort of philosophy, when it works, tends to produce
children who have good academic performance up to the undergraduate level
but do not necessarily have the right skill set for doing well the graduate
level and beyond.




【 在 dcbang (认真学习,努力思考,使劲白唬) 的大作中提到: 】
: http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanvardi/2015/09/29/rich-formula-math-and-computer-wizards-now-billionaires-thanks-to-quant-trading-secrets/#31522bfb7f30
: WOW,不知道陶天才看到这里怎么想?所以陶天才还要加上一条,恬淡!
: 文章
: 工作
: GUESS
: 和7



--
※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 网址:mitbbs.com 移动:在应用商店搜索未名空间·[FROM: 192.]

 
dcbang
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发信人: dcbang (认真学习,努力思考,使劲白唬), 信区: Dcbang_On_Education
标  题: Re: 陶天才论天才
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Jan 10 12:48:57 2017, 美东)

http://www.asiapacific-mathnews.com/01/0101/0023_0026.html

Gazette: Could you tell us a bit about yourself?

Tao: I was born here, in Australia, in 1975, in Adelaide. I grew up and
stayed here in Adelaide for 16 years. When I was a kid, I was accelerated. I
skipped five grades in primary school. This meant that I started high
school at age 8. But I was already taking more advanced maths classes (Year
11), even when I was in primary school I took some high-school maths classes
. And when I was at high school I took some maths classes at uni. My mother
and father had to arrange this with the headmaster and the head of
department, so it was very complicated. But it all worked out. When I got my
Bachelor degree at Flinders University, Garth Gaudry, my advisor,
recommended very strongly that I study abroad, so I went to Princeton and
completed a PhD. My advisor in Princeton recommended I stay in the States. I
've been with UCLA ever since, pretty much. Except I've spent a few summers
in Australia, at ANU and UNSW.


Gazette: When you skipped all these grades, did you skip them in all
disciplines or just maths?

Tao: It was staggered. At age 8 I was in Year 8 for things like English,
PhysEd, etc. But for maths I was in Year 11 or 12.


Gazette: Did your parents encourage you to become a mathematician?

Tao: I think initially they were at a loss. They didn't know what it was
that you do as a mathematician. Once they realised that I liked maths more
than physics, they were happy to let me do what I liked and I'm very
grateful for that. They didn't push me into something. In Asian cultures,
there's always a big pressure to do something prestigious like medicine or
law, but for some people this is not the best career. I'm happy that they
didn't mind that I liked maths.


Gazette: Have you got any brothers and sisters?

Tao:  I have two brothers, both younger than me. One is still in Adelaide
and works for the Defence Science and Technology Organisation, and the other
is in Sydney and works for Google. It was his dream job. He lobbied quite
hard. He even had a web page at one stage explaining why he should be hired
by Google, with his resume, etc. It probably helped him getting the job.
Google likes that kind of thing.


Gazette: Have you ever considered working for Google yourself?

Tao: Not really. I like academic maths too much. They do some interesting
problem-solving but most of it is programming. I can program, but I'm not as
good at that as I am at maths.

Gazette: What do you like most about academia?

Tao: I like academic freedom. You can work on your research, and it doesn't
have to be directed. It doesn't have to be what your boss is telling you to
do. It is very flexible. And I like teaching, when you get the students to
learn something that they couldn't see before. Their eyes light up: "Ah, I
get it now" And this makes you feel like you're doing something very useful.
I like the culture: talking to other mathematicians. Everyone who does
mathematics does it because they like mathematics. They are not doing it for
the money.

Gazette: Do you do much teaching?

Tao: Nowadays I mostly teach graduate courses. I also have my own graduate
students, six graduate PhD students. They are quite mature. I've been gone
all month now, and they've been looking after themselves. So they've just
sent me an email with feedback for the last three weeks of what they have
done. that's great. In my students I look for someone who is independent and
mature and hard-working. As long as they have some sense of mathematics,
they don't have to be amazing. They can always pick this stuff up later.

Gazette: Did you always like maths?

Tao: Yes, ever since I can remember. My parents tell me that at age 2 I was
trying to teach other kids how to count using number blocks. Although as a
kid I had a different idea of what mathematics was than I do now. I thought
it was always puzzles and games. I didn't really understand why we do
mathematics until a lot later. I certainly enjoyed doing the abstract. I
also enjoyed doing arithmetic.
Gazette: Do you still like doing puzzles?

Tao: Not so much. I think I get enough of it at work.

Gazette: What made you choose to study maths at school or uni?

Tao:  It was what I enjoyed doing. As I said before, I really liked solving
puzzles. I really liked it when the rules were very clear: what was right
and what was wrong. So I had a lot of trouble with English. English was the
subject I couldn't get the point of. "Write whatever you feel like?" - what
does that mean?

Gazette: Have you ever considered doing anything else?

Tao: When I was a kid I didn't know what maths research was. I thought there
was someone who gave you problems to do and you do them, like a giant
homework project. When I was told you have to come up with your own research
problems, I had no idea. How does anyone do that? I remember thinking I'd
be a shopkeeper. This was something I understood. You could have inventory,
and you'd buy things and keep a record. That seems to make sense. I've done
a little bit of consulting for government agencies. This was nice, but I do
like the academic environment much better.

Gazette: Why do you do mathematics?

Tao: It is rewarding. When you discover something and it makes sense, you
can explain it to other people. You get this good feeling, like when you
solve a crossword puzzle. You didn't understand it before, now you do. You
feel smarter. You've really made some achievement. I really like the fact
that you can always build on what you did before and on what other
mathematicians did before. It's not like fashion for example, where each
year you do something very different from the previous year. I've only been
doing research mathematics for 15 years, but I can see how much the fields I
've been working in have advanced and how our tools are getting better. It's
great to be part of this progress.

Gazette: You've contributed quite a bit!

Tao: Not just me. There are a lot of really good mathematicians out there.
Every time there's a breakthrough It's great to hear about. I'm talking at
the plenary lecture here about Perelman's work on the Poincare Conjecture.
It's a really great achievement, and I had nothing to do with it!

Gazette: Is it difficult to combine the life of a Fields Medal winner with
family life with your son and wife?

Tao: The Fields Medal doesn't impress them. It is a big deal in mathematics
and right after I got it there was some media attention. But 99% of people
in the world have not heard of the Fields Medal. And even if they did, Los
Angeles has so many celebrities, I think it wouldn't be a big deal. This is
one reason why I like living in LA, I can be anonymous â” no-one
cares. I wouldn't want to be a celebrity anyway. I give a public lectures,
say 500 people show up, and I sometimes wonder if they show up because they
want to learn some maths or if a lot of them just come because they've heard
that's this famous person. A little bit of this is good, but being a
celebrity shouldn't be the main aspect of yourself. You should focus on the
content.

Gazette: Has the medal changed your life in any way? Are you busier than
ever?

Tao:  I was already busy, and I'm still busy. I'm just busy in slightly
different ways. It means that I get invited to more events. And I do feel I
have more of a responsibility of being a spokesperson or role model for
mathematics. I've noticed sometimes when I talk to other mathematicians, and
I say something I didn't really think carefully about and people take what
I say off-hand much more seriously. "Oh, this is very deep", if I'm making
some simple observation. Sometimes you have to watch what you say a bit more
.

Gazette: Is there any advice you could give to early career mathematicians?

Tao: Doing mathematics is a long-term thing. I've had grad students who said
, "OK", I'm doing my PhD, and at the end of the four years, I'll have learnt
everything I need to know, and I'll be a leader in the field". It doesn't
work that way! You have to work through undergraduate, and through graduate,
and even after you finish, there is still a lot more to learn. Mathematics
is huge. You have to keep pushing yourself and not be content with doing
just one or two things and sit in this niche of mathematics and never
venture out of it, if you want to really progress. I'd describe it as like
running a marathon. You can't just sprint right through it. You have to keep
learning, and really enjoy doing mathematics. If you don't enjoy it, you
won't have the stamina to keep at it. But it is very rewarding if you keep
at it.

--
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发信人: dcbang (认真学习,努力思考,使劲白唬), 信区: Dcbang_On_Education
标  题: Re: 陶天才论天才
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Jan 10 13:27:23 2017, 美东)

http://www.smh.com.au/good-weekend/terence-tao-the-mozart-of-maths-20150216-13fwcv.html


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标  题: Re: 陶天才论天才
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Jan 10 13:29:43 2017, 美东)


Things could have been different for Terry Tao. He might have used his brain
with evil intent. "Okay, I don't think it would count as evil, but a lot of
my PhDs, they go into the finance industry, Wall Street, and typically they
earn ridiculous salaries. In fact, I don't even know exactly how much they
earn. It's probably good for my health not to know." He is now absent-
mindedly stroking the family's fluffy tortoiseshell cat, which has jumped
onto his lap. Tao himself was once head-hunted by a hedge fund. "But I don't
know, these things never sort of really interested me."

HEHE。。教授也会酸。

He's done some consultancy work for the US intelligence bureau, the National
Security Agency. "It's not as glamorous as it sounds. You spend a year
going through security clearance and then you work on some problems which
you don't know where they came from, they don't tell you that much," he says
, and then corrects himself. "No, it's interesting work; it's kind of fun
actually..."


---- NSA

【 在 dcbang (认真学习,努力思考,使劲白唬) 的大作中提到: 】
: http://www.smh.com.au/good-weekend/terence-tao-the-mozart-of-maths-20150216-13fwcv.html



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发信人: dcbang (认真学习,努力思考,使劲白唬), 信区: Dcbang_On_Education
标  题: Re: 陶天才论天才
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Jan 10 13:48:51 2017, 美东)

https://terrytao.wordpress.com/2010/04/29/suggestions-for-games-that-promote
-mathematical-thinking/

I myself have not seriously played these sorts of games for years, so I
could only come up with a few examples immediately: the game “Planarity“,
and the game “Factory Balls” (and two sequels).   (Edit: Rubik’s cube and
its countless cousins presumably qualify also, due to their implicit use of
group theory.)  I am hopeful though that readers may be able to come up
with more suggestions



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发信人: dcbang (认真学习,努力思考,使劲白唬), 信区: Dcbang_On_Education
标  题: Re: 陶天才论天才
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Jan 10 13:57:44 2017, 美东)

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/life/weekend-australian-magazine/beautiful-minds/news-story/d332e59fbc3458f502b3e61448188ad9?nk=ff7ea5ad27f8c8b7f58d017251457c07-1484074366


“Many parents of gifted children tend to overestimate their children’s
ability, they want to maximise speed,” says Billy. “One thing I disagree
about with the gifted-children movement is the emphasis on acceleration.
Many gifted-education people, particularly teachers who have diplomas in
gifted education, are all brainwashed with this idea of acceleration,
acceleration, acceleration. What about lateral thinking? What about
creativity?”

In contrast to the effusive praise other parents heaped on their little
Mozarts, the Taos avoided excessive flattery and downplayed the importance
of winning.

It was a policy they put in place partly to deal with the challenge
presented by their youngest son, Nigel. A prodigy at chess and maths – his
IQ qualifies him as profoundly gifted – Nigel faced the difficulty of being
merely exceptional in a family where extraordinary was the norm. At 14 he a
won bronze medal in the International Mathematical Olympiad in Hong Kong.
By then, however, Trevor had become an international chess player, met prime
minister Bob Hawke and been made the subject of a book, a PhD thesis and
countless media appearances. Terry, meanwhile, had written his first maths
textbook at 15, earned a masters degree at 17 and was starting a doctoral
thesis on harmonic analysis at Princeton University.

Miraca Gross, a professor of gifted education at the University of NSW who
has known the Taos since 1984, is among the many who note that one of the
family’s most remarkable qualities is the absence of egotism and rivalry.
“There’s an enormous, deep affection between the three boys,” says Gross.
“By the time Terry was 10 years old he was actively looking for ways he
could help his brothers on their paths.”


Asked if he sees any parallels between Trevor’s autistic quirks and his own
, Nigel doesn’t seem in the least offended. “Well, I think there is a
correlation between autistic behaviour and maths and music – that’s quite
frequently commented on. And even myself and Terry, we do quite like our
clever little puns and crosswords and games. If there are shades of
stereotypical autistic behaviour, I’m sure I’ve got fractions of it. The
little intellectual patterns in maths and music, I’m quite happy to amuse
myself with those things, more than the average man, I think. It’s just a
different mindset.”

--
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发信人: dcbang (认真学习,努力思考,使劲白唬), 信区: Dcbang_On_Education
标  题: Re: 陶天才论天才
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Jan 10 14:14:54 2017, 美东)

https://www.quora.com/What-do-mathematicians-think-of-Terence-Tao
--
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